Embracing Digital Transformation

This is Darren Pulsipher, chief

solution architect, author,
and most importantly, your host.

And welcome to Embracing
Digital Transformation,

where we investigate effective change,
leveraging people, process

and technology.

On today's episode, leveraging generative

AI in college was special guest
and student of BYU, Idaho.

Madeline Pulsipher.

Madeline, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for having me.

Hey. It's a pleasure
having you on my show.

You're not the first one of my kids
to be on my show.

I think you're the second Matthew
who's been on the show.

I think just Matthew and you. Wow.

But you in Matthew a Madei There you go.

Well, Madeline,
before we get started in the topic today,

which is generative
AI in school, specifically college.

You started your own podcast.

Tell my audience
a little bit about you and your podcast,

why you're doing it, and then we'll dive
right into the subject today.

Yeah, I just started on my own YouTube
channel.

It's called Madei, spelt MADEI,
where I talk about mindful

living and intention know living
and my college education experience.

I just started it, so I'm really excited

to be able to develop that more.

All right. Self-promotion there.

Way to go.

Would you use your dad's podcast
for self-promotion?

All right.

So let's dive let's dive right into this

because we're really talking
about embracing generative AI.

That is that is the subject of the series

that we're working through right now.

Tell my audience
a little bit about your journey with Chad.

Did you use it because you were a freshman

this last semester,
one semester down in college.

Way to go. Yep.

Before you went to

college, did you use Chad Shipp at all
in high school?

What was your experience with Chad JPT
before you went to college?

Well, to be honest, it was wasn't really

like I didn't really use it
before college.

The only time I had used
it was for silly things that my brother

I had seen my brothers use it for, like
creating stories and things like that.

So when I got to college, I realized
I should be using this tool more.

But before that, I hadn't

really used it at all.

Just.

Just just for fun and games
and things like too much.

Now, your brothers are really great
using Chad you to make up funny stories.

Yes, very much so.

All right.

So I know we talked before
you went to school.

I said, Madeline,
you got to kind of dive into this.

You got to use it.

It's going to help you in school.

But what was your fear in using it?

My first fear was, I mean, not

a lot of teachers
or professors really accepted.

I was scared.

I would honestly be pegged as cheating.

Or am I scared?

It was the lazy way out of education.

So did did any of

your teachers have policies on using Chad
and what were they?

What were they like?

They actually didn't.

I just before this podcast,
they looked through all my old syllabuses

and they didn't have anything on AI

being used in the classroom
or about the policy

just cheating policies,
but that wasn't even mentioned.

So, I mean,
so did they bring it up in class at all?

On using Chad
Beatty's a no no or generative AI.

They didn't actually.

The only class that I was brought up
in was my agriculture orientation class.

And that class.

It was that class had people come in
that were in the industry.

And the only time it was mentioned
when someone

mentioned that they use it
in their everyday job and my teacher

kind of was a little hesitant
that he said, Really?

Yeah,

really interesting.

So the universities,
not all of them have picked up on

how to use it,
or do you think they're afraid to?

Honestly, I think they they are.

That's
why they're not mentioning it at all.

I think a lot of people know about Chad,
GPT and other A's,

but they're not mentioning it
or discussing it.

Interesting.

Now, did did any of your roommates
cause you

you were room with five other girls,
right?

Right.

All different
all different majors all day.

I met them all or their Darlene,

but they were all over the place as far
as majors and background and all that.

So were they using Generative?

I have they heard about it?

What was what was the thing there?

They honestly, I think I made some of them

set up accounts with Chachi pretty.

Oh, look at you evangelizing GenAI they I,

I think I was the only one
that actually used it and utilized it.

No one else used it.

Even my classmates, they didn't use it.

I mean, I had a group project
that I was like, Why don't we ask Chachi

for some ideas to, like, bounce off of?

And they were really hesitant to use it.

And I was like, It's a tool or not.

We're not cheating or anything. It's
a tool that we're using.

Okay, So it's a tool.

We're not cheating.

Yeah, really?

Would your professors say that it was okay
that you used it?

I used it right in front of my professors
and they didn't say

anything about it.

So I don't know,
because they want to know.

Can you use it? Can you use it to cheat?

You definitely could use it to cheat,
but I don't think you.

So what's what's the difference in.

I guess that's what I'm after.

What's the difference
between cheating and using it as a tool?

So, for
example, cheating would just be putting

in the instructions of an essay
and having it spit

something out and submitting that
and doing nothing to it.

Whereas a tool would be,
Hey, here's my outline, here's my subject

or not, here's here's my instructions,

here's my subject,
Can you write an outline for me?

And then you take that outline
and you write an essay

based off that outline
that's using it as a tool,

whereas you know, cheating,
having it submit things.

And so you use it, you use it to help

you get started in the process or guide
you along.

So that's how you use the tool.

And and you let your professors,
some of your professors knew

that you were doing this
or none of them knew.

I don't think any of them knew.

I use it during class, so it wasn't like
I was trying to hide it or anything,

but I never brought

it up with any of my professors.

So was it is there a temptation?

All right. You have to be honest.

Is there a temptation when.

Oh, crud.

I forgot this essay that was due tomorrow.

It's 10 p.m. at night.
It's two at midnight.

I got 2 hours to whip out an essay.

Is that temptation there?

Oh, yeah, definitely.

But the essays it spits out
aren't going to be

You're not going to get a good grade
on them.

Oh, why not? I thought you'd beat those.

Did great essays.

If it's very.

They use a lot of adjectives too much.

It's too formal in writing.

It's not human because, I mean, it's not.

So you're not going to get good warrants
or explanations

on things as much as you would
if you were doing it yourself.

Now, I think you could write an essay
in 2 hours with it,

using it as a tool instead of asking it
to spit something out for you.

Is that something you did

used to as a tool?

I never had it

spit something out,
and I just submitted that.

Okay. I'm glad to do that

because you're professors
are going to listen to this podcast.

Oh, yeah.

I'll send it to them.

Send it to all of them.

Okay.

So another quick another quick question
then.

We're going to dive
into the different ways that you use to

what if the

the university
or at BYU is where you're at?

What if they said no charge?

AP period, no generative AI at all, zero.

Would that be tough for you?

I think so.

And I don't think it's realistic because
talking to professionals in industry,

they use it themselves and college
is supposed to, especially at BYU, Idaho,

they really prepare you for the workforce.

And I would go to them
and basically tell them that,

Oh, okay, yeah, that's a great argument,
right?

Hey, you're trying to prepare me
for the workforce.

The workforce uses this too, all the time.

Oh, Oh, that's a good argument.

So you would argue your case? Yeah.

You like using it?
It's it's a valuable tool.

Yeah, it's a tool.

And I could show them how I use it,
and maybe they should teach us

how to use it
so kids aren't cheating with it

interest.

But there are going to be some kids
who cheat.

Yeah, just with anything.

But those kids have always cheated.

Yep. Right.

Okay.

All right.

Next question.

Let's talk about the different ways
that you use it as a tool.

All right?

Because you said I just use a tool.

But you you uncovered
some really interesting things

that you did using Chad GPT,
both for school and also social.

We'll talk about the social,
social aspect of it, too,

which I think is really funny.

But let's first talk about
give me kind of different scenarios

on when you use chat CBT as a tool.

Let's look at the different ways
you can use it as a tool.

So like I mentioned earlier,
I used it as helping me write essays for

I would ask it to give me an outline
and then I would take that outline

and add to it
and write an essay based off of that

along with essays.

I also helped it.

It helps me write businesses
and jump ideas back so I could get a clear

understanding
about what I was writing about.

So you're using it as as a
for the outlining.

I think that's great.

You can put the prompt in there and say,

Hey, I need an outline that helps me
hear my ideas and an outline.

It helps me organize it.
So that's pretty cool.

And then the next thing you said was

the outline and then,

oh, theses.

So brainstorming.

Oh, so So
tell me how that what that looks like.

Does it give you a bunch of ideas
it comes back or what,

What does that look like.

So the way I would do it
is, I mean, in one of my classes,

we it was a group project
that a specific situation

where we had a question
that we wanted to do,

but we had to make it into a thesis
that wasn't a question.

So I just put the question in there
and I asked,

Can you give me ideas for a thesis or

like zoning in on this topic?

And it could give you one idea
or you could ask it

for a list of ideas,
just what you want from it,

and then you can
and then that gets your own brain going.

Is that what you typically saw?

Yeah, and me and my group,
we didn't take exactly what Chachi said.

We took multiple ideas that he gave
and we created a thesis.

It's all right.

So good. So

the brainstorming So the brainstorming
stuff is is really valuable.

Okay, so there's two two things, right?

Helping outline to help you write a paper,
brainstorming and ideas.

Give me another one

again.

When like,
when I came to submitting my paper,

I would put my paper into Chachi
t put in the instructions

and put in the syllabus
and I'd have it grade it for me.

Oh, my goodness.

See, that's that's brilliant.

So you put the rubric in.

Yeah, right.

You put the rubric in
and your essay and said, how do I do. Yep.

And it would give me specific.

It wasn't easy on me, which

was nice because then I could fix it,
It would give me specific ideas.

And if it said, you know, you need to
elaborate more here, I'd say like, how?

What am I missing in that part
that I need to elaborate more on?

How did you do on those papers
that you use it this way.

I got A's on all of my papers, so.

All right. Is that cheating?

I don't think so.

I think it's using your resources.

I mean, it's
just like asking someone else,

Hey, can you grade this paper for me?

So it would be like
going to the writing center,

because I know at BYU,
I know they have a writing center.

It's a great school.

It would be like going to the writing
center, having someone review it, and

but this way you can do it
without walking out in the in the cold.

Yeah. It's not subjective

or Yeah, yeah,

yeah. It's

so is it brutal T sometimes.

Is it me now I Chachi
But if you say anything like stupid

it's like,
well I don't like to be stupid, but

here's some funny things instead.

Okay.

So, so it's pretty
nice to have you only use chat GP

or have you tried
any of the other generative

AI You've only used chatbot T
I only know of ChatGPT.

I know you've, you've
mentioned a couple other ones, but yeah,

I'm going to mention Claude Clay, Eudy

and also

Bart from Bear from Google

Barges got updated with Gemini
a couple of weeks ago.

Very, very cool.

But both of those are really good as well.

So now you've got two other friends
that you can ask.

Yeah, two other generals
start using them next semester.

All right.

So there's
a downside to this, isn't there?

Because if you go to the resource center
at the school,

either the writing lab
or maybe it's a math lab or whatever,

aren't
you missing out on that human interaction

with with someone?

I could see how that could be a problem.

But for me, I also took
advantage of those resources as well.

Okay, so you didn't just sit in your dorm
room and,

you know, huddle down and just say, GenAI,
as my best friend now.

No, because I go, okay, it's an A.I..

Like you need that human.

You need human eyes on it to see,

especially if you're writing
like a personal narrative or something.

You need someone to, like,
be able to feel those emotions

that you're trying to get across.

And I, I like that.

I like that. Very good answer. Okay.

Next.

Any other any other things you use?

Chad GPT four You told me one.

Hopefully you'll bring it up. If not.

Oh no, I'm really excited
for this next one.

Best for last.

But I would use as a study buddy.

Okay. All right.

A study buddy. Explain that.

Because when I think a study buddy
in college,

I wasn't thinking
there was a lot of studying.

Okay, exactly.

That's why you use a computer
instead of actual humans.

But no.

So I was taking econ last semester,
which is a pretty hard class,

and they don't give you
study guides for test.

I don't know if normal classes do that,
but this class,

we didn't have study guides,
so I would have basically put in

they had like practice tests
at the end of textbook chapters.

So I would put that in and be like, Hey,
can you make a study

guide or a test
or a quiz based off of these ideas?

And then it would grade me on it.

That is pretty slick.

So you were creating your own curriculum,
right?

You were creating your own tests
so that you could practice test

before you went and took the test. Yeah,

that's that's pretty cool.

So it's really good

for digesting
a large amount of information.

Yeah.

Helping you quiz you on things like that.

That's for right now.

Yeah.

Now, Madeline,
you also suffer from severe dyslexia, too,

so, Ginny, I can really help
you quite a bit

in text to speech type things.

Now I know you have tools

that you've used to listen to books
and listened to curriculum.

Did you find those useful in college
or was there just too much through it?

What, you couldn't handle it.

And the only time
I used text to speech was

in my online textbooks

and audiobooks with

other things.

But when it came to that ACE
or I don't know, are those either texts?

Yeah, they are, Yeah. Yeah.

There are generative AI text to speech.

GenAI Yeah, yeah.

So I would listen to those

and read along at the same time,
but that's the best way I learned.

So if I just listen to it,
I get distracted.

So I have to pay attention. I'm doing it.

But sometimes concepts are even like

even if I listen to it, it's
hard to understand sometimes.

So I would put that in chat,
UBC and ask, Hey,

can you explain this a different way?

Oh, I like that.

That's pretty cool, right?

Yeah, because a textbook has a certain way
of describing things.

They may describe it

several different ways,
but it's still the voice of the author,

which if you don't understand
that voice, it can be difficult.

Yeah.

Very,

very cool ideas
on how to how to leverage charge you did

in what, at the end of the semester
did you wish that

you knew at the beginning of the semester
about using the tools?

I didn't start using it

as a study buddy till

well, I did use it as a study buddy
probably on

my second e contests
and I did really well on that test.

And the first test it didn't do too well
on, I mean, relatively to the second one

in the last test I didn't use it on and

I didn't get a good grade.

So it's just interesting
to see the difference.

And you did that as an experiment, right?

Oh, definitely.

Because it does take time.

You have to ask it certain questions
until you get what you want.

So it's not it's not as simple.

It's not as simple.

Just, hey, don't do soon.

Give me a test to make me smarter. It's
not that. So.

Yeah.

And I mean, another way I would use
it is if I didn't understand

a word, I would ask, Hey,
can you explain this simply?

And it just took a lot of time, but

I as I was doing that,
I was learning how to use the tool

and learning the content than I need to.

Now that's cool.

Now you use another gen AI
and you may not know it's a GenAI.

It's Grammarly.

Oh yeah,

yeah.

Now Grammarly has a gen AI attached to it.

Now did I get you that, that version?

I can't remember. Yeah, I think you did.

Yeah.

Have you found that useful as well
or did you not even consider it again?

I like Jagged Beauty.

I didn't as much.

I started using it
probably on my last paper.

Like the highlighting thing is
that we were talking about.

Yeah, you can highlight it and say, Hey,

can you make this in active voice
instead of passive voice?

Or can you explain this,

you know? Or does this even make sense?

It'll tell you,
I have no idea what you're talking about.

Yeah, I would use that

more towards the end of my semester

using it as like, Hey,
does this even make sense?

Like, is this descriptive enough?

Because I think my last paper
was personal narrative.

Hey, is this depicting a story?

Like, do you see the storyline in this?

And it would pick it out really
well or not pick it out because it wasn't

there or not paid, depending on
how good or how well you wrote?

Yeah,

very, very cool.

So you actually use several Gen I's
this semester.

Do you feel

do you feel like you're ahead
of your classmates as far as using a tool

like this?

It sounds like you are,
but towards the end of the semester,

had they started picking it up
and using it, they hadn't.

And I would always be like, Hey,
you should just ask ChatGPT about it.

And they're like, Well,
they didn't even have accounts.

I mean, shame on them.

I know.

I do feel like in my head
and I wish the university

that I went to
and I believe most universities

don't have this, would teach
how to use these new eyes

in your everyday lives because,
I mean, people in the industry use it.

So they should teach us now,

which is it?

Well, yeah, I

you know this because I use Chad's CBT
every single day and I use cloth.

I interviewed
Claude and Bard and Charge CBT

and they're up for another
another interview.

They have some new updates, so
I'm going to have to interview them again.

Okay. So we talked about school.

We talked about whether it's
cheating or not, the ethics behind it.

You don't feel about it all
about using this tool?

No. You don't feel like
you ever crossed the line using it.

Or maybe there was something gray
right on the verge.

I don't know.

I mean, my professors
never mentioned anything about it

with my papers or anything and submitted.

And so I,

I it's a tool that I
think we should all utilize.

So and it

sounds like you did a good job
on using it as a tool

instead of having it
plagiarize papers for him.

Oh, well, that's good.

Now, talked about school.

You use him in the social aspect too.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. Oh, oh yeah. Okay, explain.

Because how can you use a GenAI

in the social world
that you're living out in college?

There is one situation
I can think of where I didn't like

the advice my roommates were giving,
so I had ChatGPT,

so I needed to text a guy to tell him
I didn't want to go on another date.

Basically.

Okay.

So do you think he's listening
to this episode?

If he is, it's fine.

It's fine. Okay, It's fine.

You let down some guy with chat.

Chat? Keep
let him down, is what you're saying.

Well, okay.

So ChatGPT was very formal with its response.

It was like, Hello, sir.

And I'm like, That's not what I want.

So again,
I took basic ideas that it gave me

and then spit out
something that was perfect.

You didn't change the prompt

because you can change the prompt
and tell ChatGPT, Hey,

I want you to pretend
like you're in college.

To pretend like you're a college student,

a girl letting down a guy,
and it was still too formal.

I did say, like, make it less formal,
dumb down that I never.

I've never used it. Dale,

was he a Neanderthal?

That was.

No, he wasn't.

So you used it to help you.

What did you.

All right, So what was the difference
between what your roommate said

and what Chad you said? Oh, I can't.

I should remember.

Basically, I took all of the ideas

that they gave me and formulated something
so chatty.

Betty was like, Unfortunately,
I can't go on another date because,

you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

I'm try I can't even think
because that, that unibrow

you have, I just don't,
you know like unibrow Is that what it was.

Yeah.

Probably like it

but yeah I would use it.

Nothing gets people with you to browse.

I'm just saying

I don't think my daughter likes unibrow,
so that's cool.

I don't know. Okay, there you go.

But yeah, I just.

It's such a great tool to use in social
situations that you're not sure about,

and it can be somewhat impartial.

Right.

Let's take some of the emotion out.

Yeah, I gotcha. Okay.

So, Madeline, what are you going to do
this next semester?

What are you going to do
different this next semester with Chatty

Betty and Cloud and Grammarly and Bard?

Well, I want to try the other areas.

Like Clod is the Cloud or.

No, it's Selah Udy.

It's by Anthropic.

That's the name of the company.

And you can upload
PDF files and document files.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. It's pretty cool.

Well, that sounds like it would be
a great tool to use for research.

Oh. Oh, absolutely.

But yeah, I think utilizing more, more

resources because each one's a bit
different, I'm assuming.

Oh, they are.

They are.

And they have a different bias
towards different things. Yeah.

So maybe looking at all

of the different types of eyes
this next semester and utilizing it more.

Okay, so you're going
to, you're going to buckle down on it

if people want to find out
more about you and your

journey with GenAI, I because

obviously
if you're going to podcast this next year

about mindfulness and simple Life, you're
most certainly going to be using GenAI.

AI and doing some things on that.
Is that a safe assumption?

Oh yeah.

To write video outlines
and all that good stuff.

Are you going to, are you going to podcast
about using GenAI I do.

You think I'm probably not at the moment.

Maybe in the future.

Well,
you can always come back on this show

and tell us some of the things
that that you've done.

Yeah, that'll be amazing.

Great. All right.

So how do people find your podcast
or your your video channel?

My handle is @MindfulMadei.

So you can find
me on Instagram and YouTube.

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Digital Transformation today.

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